Why Scholars Gather: A Tour Through the Wild World of Biblical Academia (Dru Johnson) Ep. #228

Dru Johnson (00:00)
What do biblical scholars do when they get together with each In this episode, it’s gonna be quite different. I’m going to be interviewing women and men on the street, as it were, at the annual meeting of the Society for Biblical Literature. It also is the annual meeting of the American Academy of Religion. I tend to go to the SBL, Society of Biblical Literature, functions more than the AAR functions. But either way, I wandered around

the book hall, is a massive convention center with lots of publishers and schools and various people setting up booths and selling books. And they are also selling things like back massage ⁓ devices as well, because we all have bad backs, guess, because we’re all old people. ⁓ But this is the annual convention. It moves around. This year it was in Boston. Next year it’ll be in Denver. Then it’ll be DC and then San Diego. But this is where all the people from around the world come.

to meet with each other and go into sessions, as you’ll hear them called, where they will meet with people on their specific interests. So there can be a Gospel of Mark section. There can be trauma theory in the Gospel of Mark. There can be female trauma theory in the Gospel of Mark. Those are all possible sessions. can have anything you can think of. There is a group that is into it that they write their research on it and they meet together.

this meeting. So there’s not, it’s a conference, but there’s no time where all of these thousands of scholars are together in one room. I also go to the Institute for Biblical Research conference that is within this conference. It gets confusing, which is basically confessional ⁓ Christian scholars, so not Catholic or Orthodox, but Protestant scholars who are confessional scholars who attend this meeting as well. That’s right, most

I think by the numbers it would be true that most biblical scholars are not confessional, they’re agnostic or atheist or ⁓ maybe have various relationships with their church. But it’s just not a given that when you walk into a room at this meeting that you’re going to be with other like-minded people from your same denomination or even that they would be a Christian. They might be a complete atheist, right? And so the questions will stand. We scrutinize each other’s work whether you believe it’s about the God of the universe.

or not. I’ve seen some really weird conversations on Twitter where people were calling these things heresies being talked about and I’m like, they’re not Christians so technically I don’t think they could be heresies. But people talk about everything and it doesn’t matter whether you believe it or not. So that’s the group that I’m going to be interviewing. Everybody in these interviews, they are confessional scholars, they’re Christians, but they’re going to help us understand from a publisher’s perspective and from a scholar’s perspective what it’s like to attend these very weird

meetings. Okay, I hope you enjoy.

Speaker 2 (03:00)
I’m here with Luke Lewis of Langham Publishing ⁓ at SBL 2025. ⁓ Luke, what is Langham doing here? Maybe actually you could start by just describing where we’re at and what it looks like in here.

Speaker 6 (03:12)
Yeah, yeah, we’re in a side of the hall. It’s a little bit quiet just now, but it’s a large exhibition hall and this is where most of the academic book publishers that serve the SPL and AAR community are placed with many of their new releases and some of their older, more popular releases.

Speaker 2 (03:32)
Speaking of releases, so you’re Langham Publishing, what’s your specialty in publishing? Every publisher has their own kind of region.

Speaker 6 (03:39)
Yeah, that’s right. So ⁓ we are a publisher out of a ministry of John Stott who had a focus and heart for the church around the world, especially in the areas where it was growing the fastest and is the largest. And as both an academic publisher and a professional publisher, we really focus on serving scholars and authors in areas like Sub-Saharan Africa, the Middle East, South Asia, Southeast Asia, with providing them with a platform where they can write and publish both for their community

And then also the rest of the world and that’s kind of what brings us to the AARSBL here in North America is really to engage with scholars from around the world and let them know about some of the great things that are being published elsewhere in the world.

Speaker 2 (04:21)
Okay, cheeky question. What’s the worst behavior you’ve seen by scholars, excepting me? ⁓ What kind of things do scholars do that maybe are ⁓ weird or…

Speaker 6 (04:30)
Yeah, I mean, well, there’s lots of weird things, but I think what stands out sometimes, especially when we think about the kinds of books that we publish, context is important. Everybody thinks and writes and engages with scripture from their context. And sometimes people forget that. They don’t think that they think where they are standing is the standard. And I would say one ⁓ altercation, but one experience I had a few years ago was where someone approached me and said, what is the point of me reading this book on public theology from that?

African perspective. I’m not African. And we had a little conversation about why it was important because it brought you a new perspective. Sometimes you could read on something that didn’t contain baggage from your own side, especially when it comes to public theology. This person disagreed with me, but then brought out a I brought a book from his bag that he was the author of, and he asked me how he could get this distributed in Nigeria.

Speaker 2 (05:25)
That’s horrible.

Speaker 6 (05:26)
Yeah,

I think it felt like an S &L skit.

Speaker 2 (05:31)
Did you say, is this a bit? you having me on right now? Thank you Luke Lewis with Langham Publishing.

Speaker 6 (05:38)
Yeah, pleasure. Thanks so much, Drew.

Speaker 2 (05:40)
Cindy Parker, I’m here with Dr. Cindy Parker, who does lot of ⁓ teaching on narrative in the land. She’s with Resurrection Philadelphia Church. What do you look forward to most when you come to these big meetings? What do you kind of dread knowing that it’s going to be true?

Speaker 4 (05:56)
I’ll start with the dread part because it’s usually a paper I’ve committed to that I don’t feel like I’ve fully solidified my thoughts around it in a way that is presentable clearly that everyone won’t just critique to the nth degree so that fills me with great anxiety.

Speaker 2 (06:13)
Have you ever had that actually happen though the critique to the nth degree? No.

Speaker 4 (06:19)
No, I’ve definitely been in a room where people were slightly hostile to what I was saying, but not critique to the nth degree, but it still terrifies me. So there’s a little imagined fear that I’m imposing on that. part that is so delightful though is when I come and remember how many people I know and how it’s so international. So I’m seeing people from Australia and Israel and just Europe all over the place that I’m so excited to be with. And then I end up in these spaces. ⁓

of this convention where people are so kind and encouraging, where people want you to succeed, they want to hear what you’re doing, they’re massively interested, and once I’m reminded I get to have those conversations when I’m here, it’s so fulfilling.

Speaker 2 (07:07)
pockets of those people suggest that there are other spaces that are not pocket sized where you don’t have such kindness and encouragement.

Speaker 4 (07:16)
So there are sessions where there’s a lot of ego in the room. There’s a lot of senior scholars who are actually beating down the newer scholars who are coming or people who are dropping names, proving who they know, how they know it, kind of throwing elbows to create space for themselves. So there’s those pockets. And they can be interesting to participate in, even just to see.

But the ones that are actually nourishing are the people who want to exchange ideas. They’re expressing curiosity first and foremost, even if they don’t agree with what you’re saying. The curiosity is the first thing they come at you with, and those are the best.

Speaker 2 (07:58)
Yeah, I remember being warned about, you know, people’s egos and name dropping. ⁓ N.T. Wright told me when I was praying with him personally that I should worry about that. Okay, what’s some bad behavior at this conference that scholars kind of exhibit?

Note to the listener, she is looking right at me, judgmentally.

Speaker 4 (08:30)
No, no, But I would agree with Megan that people who stand in front of a room and read a script and it’s not paced well, there’s something, we just can’t listen and pay attention to someone who’s reading in a monotone voice without any kind of break. So in that way, I feel like their presentation skills don’t match their idea and their presentation skills are so bad, I don’t care what their ideas.

Speaker 2 (08:56)
Yeah. Okay, so I have both Megan and Cindy Parker here. I’m gonna ask you both, what do you make of the fact that we’re all professional educators and that people give sometimes very bad, you know, they seem to be bad teachers. What do we do with this? ⁓ amen. She just, amen. ⁓ So, I mean, what do do with that?

Speaker 1 (09:16)
I feel sorry for their students already.

Speaker 4 (09:19)
you

Speaker 2 (09:20)
Cindy? Cindy, know both of you are very good teachers. If you could coach somebody, like if say they said, hey Cindy, I know she’s a good teacher, help me because I just monotone read a paper with a new idea every other sentence. What would you say to them?

Speaker 4 (09:34)
Most audiences, not all, but lots of audiences want you to succeed in what you’re trying to communicate. And so they want you to look at them and be interested. And so anything from eye contact to looking to the person in the back row of whatever place you’re in, using hand gestures, even smiling, goes a really, really long way.

Speaker 2 (10:00)
I gotta do that smiling thing. Alright, thank you Dr. Cindy Parker who is at Resurrection Philadelphia Church in California.

Speaker 4 (10:11)
Ha ha ha ha!

Speaker 2 (10:14)
Okay, I’m here with Dr. Megan Roberts from Prairie College in Canada. So why do scholars gather here and what do they do and what do think is weird about this?

Speaker 1 (10:27)
I think any time you get a gathering of all the same type of people, it’s going to be a little weird. But that’s why we love it, because we get to have all the conversations with all the people and everybody knows what you’re talking about when you use all of your specialized terminology and they get excited about it too. So like this is probably the reason, the primary reason we all come, because we get to have all the conversations and everybody understands what we’re talking about. It’s so great. And we get free books or books at a discount. We could test our

ideas we get to have conversations and feedback and ⁓ expansion because we interact with people who give us new ideas.

Speaker 2 (11:06)
That’s

perfect. And the free books thing I just had talked to one of the publishers about, that’s what annoys them the most is people coming up going, what can I get for free? And they’re like, we don’t give away free stuff. ⁓ How do you describe what you’re doing to your students when you say, I’m going to this conference? Do you try to help them understand what you’re doing here?

Speaker 1 (11:25)
Yeah.

I tell them I’m going away. I tell them I have papers to write. So then there’s some empathy, right? And I am very honest about how behind I am and how much stress I’m under, because I have to write these papers that I committed to. And then they look at me very strangely because I did this voluntarily. You it wasn’t assigned. ⁓ But yeah, then I tell them like, and I’m not being paid. I’m paying to do this. So weird. And then I tell them what I’m writing on. And that often generates interest.

conversation with my students and they ask me good questions and then I get to come back and I get to tell them, my papers went really well and I met these cool people and they asked me these cool questions about my work and yeah so I do try to explain it although it’s a bit mysterious.

Speaker 2 (12:13)
And it’s got to

be good for the students to hear you excited about something that is probably hard for them to get excited about. ⁓ Final question, what is the worst scholar behavior you’ve seen here at the conferences? And it doesn’t have to be this year, it could be any time.

Speaker 1 (12:20)
Yeah, definitely.

not

timing your presentation and just reading it in a monotone. Shoot me now.

Speaker 2 (12:39)
Yeah, it is weird to have people just stand there and read. And then you’d think they would like do the word count and figure out how many words per minute. Yeah. How far have they gone off for you?

Speaker 1 (12:49)
Google, how many words is a 20 minute presentation? Then just do it.

Speaker 2 (12:55)
Just

consideration for your colleagues. Yeah. Okay. Thank you, Megan. I’m here with Anna English at the Baker Academic Booth. Anna, what’s some of the worst behavior you’ve seen of scholars here in the book hall?

Speaker 1 (13:00)
My pleasure.

Speaker 4 (13:12)
Yes. ⁓

Speaker 2 (13:14)
Anna

did not agree to be interviewed.

Speaker 5 (13:21)
Well, I haven’t seen it yet this year, but usually on the last day people will come and ask what books we’re giving away, assuming we are giving away books, and I tell them I think 50 % is just enough.

Speaker 2 (13:35)
Yeah, the cheapskates come over and just went… because some people do like literally give away books.

Speaker 5 (13:42)
I see people running to get them and sometimes ⁓ they’ll come over and just have this like they’re all sweaty and out of breath and they have this attitude of what here is free that I can take and I say nothing and they’re very annoyed.

Speaker 2 (13:58)
That’s

awesome. And what do you do in the book world and how do you help authors and books?

Speaker 5 (14:04)
How do I personally? I do marketing for academic books so I make sure they’re at the conferences the books are so that people can see them and buy them and ⁓ I also make sure that people know they are at the conferences so they can buy them.

Speaker 2 (14:23)
And what do do when you’re not at conferences for Baker?

Speaker 5 (14:26)
I help authors ⁓ get their titles done, get their covers done, get their endorsements done, just pretty much anything that is required for the publishing process on the marketing side.

Speaker 2 (14:38)
Okay,

let’s talk endorsements for a second. ⁓ How often do you get an endorsement and you feel like this person did not read this book?

Speaker 1 (14:48)
You know?

Speaker 5 (14:49)
Not very often. I think…

I don’t know if they don’t read the book, but sometimes you can tell when they get asked for lot of endorsements and they kind of have a copy and paste like, this book is a great resource and I like it and there’s nothing that actually is about the book itself. And then on the other side, you can definitely tell when someone genuinely likes the book because they’ll just have this glowing praise about something very specific that is 100 % true about the book that is not true about any other book. So you can tell they actually read the

Speaker 2 (15:22)
That’s actually really helpful information. I’m just gonna randomly open a page, find something hyper specific and just like home in on that thing.

Speaker 5 (15:30)
fool people into thinking you’re actually right. You’re welcome.

Speaker 2 (15:32)
Thank you, Anna.

I’m here with Dr. Chris Skinner, who’s New Testament scholar at Loyola University, Chicago. Oh, you see. Okay, so have you given any papers this year?

Speaker 3 (15:48)
Yeah, I gave a paper at a pre-conference at Gordon College on Thursday, and that was mainly for pastors. It was a little event called Community Transformation in John and Paul. It was for a launch of an MA in Community Transformation. so just papers on various aspects of John and Paul. Mine was on avoiding anti-Semitism and anti-Judaism in our preaching of the Gospel of John. And then I chaired a session that was devoted to reviewing two books. But those are the only things I’ve done in the time that I’ve been here.

Speaker 2 (16:17)
Okay, why, what’s the purpose of scholars getting in a room together and presenting papers to each other? This feels very strange to a lot of

Speaker 3 (16:24)
Yeah, it’s strange and actually ⁓ for those of us who spend their lives communicating with students, it’s actually the least intuitive form of communicating. I’m going to stand up in a room full of people. I’m going to stare at my paper and I’m going to read it. And luckily, you know, some people have gotten better over the years. A PowerPoint, a Prezi, my wife is an early grades teacher. So I told them the other day, you have a handout, you have a PowerPoint, you have me. So you’re going to hear something, you’re going to hold something and you’re going to see something. I kind of trying to develop a better kind of pedagogical approach. But scholars spend their time researching ideas.

and then putting them into a form that they can share publicly. And so, you know, when they come to these places, they’re talking mainly to other scholars and students who have enough background to appreciate their ideas and evaluate them and argue about them and debate them. And a lot of times these are works in progress. It’s important that we realize that writing is a collaborative process, right? So in some ways, the very best thing we can do is take our ideas when they’re still not quite fully formed and put them out there for public consumption and have other people help us.

⁓ make our writing better.

Speaker 2 (17:26)
Yeah, it just struck me as you said that that most students or I shouldn’t say most students often get their feelings hurt when we critique their writing and I think like I do this I go I go out of my way to get critique. Yeah for sure and so what do you recommend for younger scholars? How should they use this kind of format of presenting papers to their best advantage?

Speaker 3 (17:46)
No, I think that’s great. So I, a little bit of background on me, I was, I work with doctoral students, but I was a grad program director in my department for six years. And so I really take seriously the cultivation of the mind, the cultivation of the scholarly life, the cultivation of, of, you know, in the Jesuit Catholic tradition, we call it cure personalis, care for the whole person, helping them develop. And I know there have been times in my own development where I,

I didn’t have thick enough skin.

and I got my feelings hurt or I was made insecure by comments. But the truth is that the only way you can get better at something in life, especially if you want to be an expert, is to be around people who are better. When was growing up playing sports, my dad would always say, you need to be around people who are better than you. Like you’re going out for a shot, somebody smacks your shot out of the sky and you’re like, okay, I gotta find a better way to get around that. I gotta find a better way to make it to the basket. The only way you can become better is by being around people who are already better than you so that they can sharpen you.

The encouragement that I often have to students is you want to be in a space where you can realize there’s a lot that I don’t know. I’m surrounded by people who know a lot more than me. So instead of taking this as an opportunity to like, I’m gonna be the expert and I’m gonna lecture other people, I’m gonna come in with a humble attitude and say, okay, my knowledge is limited and I’m surrounded by people who know more than me. So let me approach with a spirit of kind of real existential and interpretive humility and just gain what I can for people who know more than me.

Speaker 2 (19:14)
That’s really good. Final question. ⁓ Can you give us an example of scholars behaving badly at a conference?

Speaker 3 (19:22)
yeah, you and I were just talking about this with another, you know, well, some background is that all of us are vested in what we study. And it can be, ⁓ it can be one of those things where it can either be good for our ego or bad for our ego, right? And you you always want people to care about something that you’ve spent days and weeks and months and years working on. And so,

Speaker 6 (19:36)
you

Speaker 3 (19:51)
Sometimes you can get to a place like this and a lot of times it’s driven by insecurity. People can feel insecure about, I see this other person getting real.

attention to their work and I’m not really getting any attention. So one of the things that will often happen is people will stand up in a room where there’s designed to be a Q &A and we just talking about this people will say well this is more of a comment than a question and then they’ll often pivot to their own narrow parochial area of research that has really nothing to do or very little to do with what has been talked about as a way of shoehorning it in to say kind of in a lesson sort of way hey look at me look at me look at me and the problem is that that’s ubiquitous and it’s not just

early career scholars, it’s people that have been doing it for years and years and maybe feel somewhat insecure about their place in the field.

Speaker 2 (20:38)
Alright, Dr. Christopher Skinner is giving us the psychology of the Society of Biblical Literature. Thank you very much.

Speaker 3 (20:44)
Yeah, my pleasure.

Speaker 4 (20:45)
Thank you